DON’T MENTION YOU’RE KINKY UNTIL AFTER THREE DATES?? ARE YOU SERIOUS??

I waffled over the title of this one for a while, but you’ll see in a minute why I chose this.

There was a time when most people had to hide kink, even from their spouses. That obviously led to marrying vanilla people because…well, they didn’t talk about it before they were married. Sometimes you got lucky and found out later you were both kinky.

Usually you didn’t.

That led to an eventual choice for many people: sneak around to get your needs met, try to convert a vanilla spouse to kinky, or deny those needs for the length of your marriage. When I was still new to the scene, I met a lot of people who were just trying out the lifestyle in their 50’s, because they were widowed and finally free to do so.

I think we can all agree that no one wants to go back to that.

However, some recent posts and comments I’ve seen in a Facebook group took me by surprise. There seems to be an idea there, that when trying to date someone it is disrespectful to bring up kink until later, perhaps after multiple dates. I believe this is because they equate BDSM with sex and are trying to keep potential dates from making things sexual too early.

Read more: DON’T MENTION YOU’RE KINKY UNTIL AFTER THREE DATES?? ARE YOU SERIOUS??

I… understand the desire to keep things casual while you’re getting to know each other, but this is a bad idea if BDSM/Kink/ D/s is in anyway a requirement for a relationship with you.

Being upfront about something that’s considered a need is not disrespectful. It stops you from wasting your time and any perspective partner’s time. If you are lifestyle, that should be right up there with gender and sexual preference when it comes to crucial early information.

It can literally be the difference between ‘This has potential’ and ‘Nope, we’re not compatible at all’ when it comes to vetting a potential partner.

Before I continue, let me just say that the way these conversations are approached matters. There are respectful ways to bring up the kink conversation that shouldn’t read as flirting or trying to initiate sex.

You will run into some people, usually men, who will pretend to be bringing up the topic for compatibility, while actually using it to move the conversation toward sex, and that is a common problem. I know, we’ve all been there.

However, assuming everything is a red flag the moment kink comes up is also a problem. Especially when it means people can’t be open about what they are looking for in a relationship.

In this group there are a lot of people who do the latter. Which happens in places that focus on shaming people rather than educating. Don’t get me wrong… it’s not always your job to educate. Sometimes people need to be shamed, but there is a danger in making assumptions immediately, and that happens too much online.

To be clear, I’m not defending disrespectful Doms, or people pretending to be Doms. Not even a little. I am saying that sometimes we can assume disrespect and jump the gun on reacting. I’ve noticed that happens a lot in this group… but let’s get into the specifics.

So what I’m seeing on Facebook is that when trying to date someone, any mention of kink/BDSM/lifestyle stuff shouldn’t come up until a relationship has already been formed. So, in other words, it shouldn’t come up until you’ve moved past casual conversation and are dating, or at least planning to meet for that.

This apparently includes listing a scene role in your bio or description, or in any way self-identifying with that role. In other words, it should be a complete surprise when your date finds out you’re in The Scene later.

I hope this unhealthy thought stays in Facebook groups and never becomes an accepted norm. The number of people in the group I’ve seen agreeing with this idea… has given me concerns.

It is clear most of them are very inexperienced or only into kink as bedroom foreplay, but this is how unhealthy things spread. Inexperienced people see others saying things with confidence, and they assume those people know what they are talking about. So they jump on the train.

This is why, again, I say… please be careful where you get your information. Facebook groups are… probably not the best source. Which doesn’t mean there aren’t people in them who know what they are talking about, but you’ll have to sift through a lot of unhealthy opinions to find them.

There are people out there, usually men, who assume that most women are submissive and all submissives can be ordered around. Without consent, without negotiation. In some cases, without even knowing you. They just assume you’ll obey them.

They have a tendency to drop into emails or msgs with really inappropriate conversation starters. Things like “Hey slut, get on your knees for Daddy!” is disgusting and entirely wrong. Even milder things like “Hey little girl, are you looking for a Dom?” are out of place when you don’t even know someone.

I get a ton of these messages in email through this blog. So, yep, I totally understand the frustration.

And some people who get them aren’t even submissives. That’s just an assumption this random ‘Dom’ has made. I know female Doms, and even women who aren’t in The Scene at all, who get these msgs from ‘Doms’.

Anyone who makes the assumption that every woman is a sub isn’t a real Dom. Anyone who expects a submissive they don’t know to obey them, out of the blue, isn’t a real Dom. They are either very inexperienced and have picked up bad information, or wanna bes. Either way… be careful of them.

A real Dom, of any gender, is respectful of other people, regardless of their scene role. They take the time to get to know someone before making any assumption about how they play. And anything more than light conversation should be discussed and negotiated. You certainly don’t just start throwing orders around, even if you’ve confirmed that the person you’re talking to is a submissive.

This should go without saying… unfortunately it doesn’t.

This behavior is why there are groups filled with people who are eager to catch a Dom or wannabe doing something wrong. It’s why people (mostly women) practically scream with glee as they snap screenshots and rush to post them on social media so everyone can mock the person for what they’ve done.

In some cases it’s very much deserved. There are tons of posts of people like I just described on dating sites and social media, jumping into in-boxes and trying to force submission on people. Sometimes they are even launching into roleplay without warning—so I absolutely understand the need to mock that. I get sick of it myself.

But people run to these groups to post bad behavior, and sometimes they do so based on assumptions, not actions. Some of these posts have outright confused me, because I don’t see anything wrong with them.

Things do change over time and The Scene is a very different place now from what it was when I first stepped in. So, sometimes I have to check myself to make sure I’m not just holding onto old ways, while things move on around me. Life is fluid, you have to change with it or get left behind.

However…in these groups, it appears there is literally nothing a Dom can do that won’t land them on a shaming post.

And the people in these groups have apparently decided there are new rules regarding what a Dom is allowed to do. They’ve decided that so many things are red flags, that I can’t see any new Dom even getting a chance in The Scene under these rules.

And, I will say, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt more than most. If they overstep and it’s not blatant, I assume they are learning—we were all new once. We all made mistakes.

Hell, we still make mistakes. Life is a learning experience, even when it comes to kinky play.

I will educate before I shame, in most cases. And I think groups that hype people up and encourage posters to shame others, often end up toxic cesspools pretty quickly. It starts out with people looking to vent and express frustrations over inappropriate behavior, which is fine… but it tends not to stay that way.

I think the social media dopamine burst you get when you share something and people start liking and commenting, kicks in here. They are excited to catch someone in a mistake so they can post about it. I’ve literally seen people say, “Finally got one!” on their post. As if they’d just been hoping for some Dom to come along and mess up.

That feels… wrong to me. We shouldn’t be hoping for people to do the wrong thing, so we can shame them. No one gets the benefit of the doubt anymore, and anything that even seems like it might be leaning toward a red flag is quickly exposed for belittling.

Any attempt to even suggest that maybe it was misread, that maybe it wasn’t that bad, that maybe people are overreacting gets slammed. Nasty behavior builds quickly as people hype each other up.

I truly hope none of these people actually want to find a Dom, because they’ve eliminated any possible way for a Dom to let them know they are a Dom. But let me give you some examples of things I’ve seen in these groups:

1. A Dom was posted and shamed because on a dating profile he wore a t-shirt that said “Daddy Dom”. No one in the group had interacted with him. Simply wearing that t-shirt was enough for his profile to be screencapped and posted for shaming.

Wearing a shirt that states your scene role is apparently now a red flag.

2. Anyone who puts Dominant/Daddy/Dom/ etc in their dating profile bio is considered a red flag. Oddly enough no one seems to mind when people put submissive in their bios…

3. A Dom jokingly, during a conversation, referred to himself as ‘Daddy Dom AF” Note he didn’t indicate that he expected anything from the woman he was talking to. He didn’t say he was her Daddy Dom. He didn’t give her orders. He just referred to himself as one during the conversation.

This was the big event that had me adding this discussion to my list. It turned into a multi-day argument with some people being really nasty about how that was obviously a red flag, and that mentioning anything like that early in a conversation meant they were a wannabe.

Bear in mind, we don’t even know how long they’d been talking. The screencaps were clearly from the middle of a conversation, and the woman he was talking to freaked out, called him an incel, lectured him, and then blocked him. All for how he referred to himself.

So, I questioned in comments, when would be the appropriate time to mention something like that, and I was informed that it should never come up until they had met in person, and gone on at least a few dates.

What?

I… was floored. Listen, I really have to ask… why? I mean it’s fine for people who like a little ass smacking during sex. I’m sure you can take or leave kink. When it’s just foreplay, it’s a want, not a need, not a life requirement.

But if you are a lifestyle person, who needs BDSM/kink/ D/s in your life… why would you want to go on multiple dates with someone only to find out they are vanilla? Who has that kind of time? This is a major compatibility issue.

And I have to assume that most of the people in these groups are lifestyle, or at least curious, because why else would they be in groups dedicated to any BDSM topic.

Now, I absolutely get the outrage if the Dom started treating you like you belong to them. That’s out. I would get it if the Dom tried to push you into a scene role. Absolutely inappropriate for sure.

But… no one has a right to tell someone how they can self-identify. If being a Dom or a sub, or any other role is a major part of your life, then you should absolutely be able to list it in your profile if you are comfortable doing so.

In fact, I would prefer you do. Many of us would prefer you do.

And yes, if you want to mention it in early conversation, please do so—respectfully. Do it as a self-identifier, not as a “I’m a Dom, so you’ll need to submit” kind of way.

Not only does it let other kinky people know that you might be a match… but it also warns off people who might be triggered by anything BDSM related. If they have PTSD or triggers around The Scene and you have ‘Dom’ in your bio, then they obviously know you are not for them.

Can you imagine getting interested in a guy, going on a few dates, thinking you have a real connection… and then finding out he requires some level of physical kink in a relationship. While you have PTSD stemming from physical abuse? I can’t even imagine how harmful that would be.

So yes, regardless of what anyone might tell you… this is crucial early info. And I honestly cannot fathom why people would not want to have it. Again, if kink is just foreplay for you, that’s fine. But if a guy is listing Dom in his bio, then chances are it’s not just foreplay for him… and you won’t be a match. So again, knowing in advance is a win for everyone.

One of the things that kept getting thrown into the conversation on Facebook was (to paraphrase) “He only mentioned it so he could work up to a conversation about sex.”

There are a few problems with that.

The main one being… you don’t know their motives. You are assuming and I have a problem with shaming someone for what you assume they were going to do. For me… the fact that I’m lifestyle will come up almost immediately and with absolutely no ulterior motives. I don’t date vanilla people, and I want it said upfront, so no one is disappointed.

The next issue is that BDSM doesn’t equal sex. It can be sexual. It can be sexual sometimes but not always. Or it can be non-sexual. Just because you see it as lead into sex talk, doesn’t mean it’s the same for them.

Although, while we’re on the subject… this might be an unpopular opinion, but there are some sexual conversations that should come up early too. Flirting, innuendo, and roleplay are not among them. Those, obviously, should be waiting until you’re both ready. But if you are looking for a romantic connection, being sexually compatible is also important for a relationship to have any chance.

Do your sexual interests need to come up before you’ve even said hello to each other? No, but respectful conversations about sex probably aren’t something to put off until you’ve been dating a while either. If you are addressing it in the right way, there’s no reason why it shouldn’t come up fairly early.

A respectful conversation can look like this: “Just so you know… I’m demisexual and I’m not interested in sex until I catch feelings for someone. So, that won’t be on the table for a while. I understand if you’re not a slow build type of person, but I like to be upfront because I don’t like being pressured.”

Or like this: “I’m only interested in a friends-with-benefits situation. Social events, maybe sex if there’s chemistry, no strings. I like kink in the bedroom, and I like to experiment, so things stay exciting. Missionary and vanilla are not my favorite words.”

These state boundaries. They discuss sex as a compatibility issue. It’s not flirting, and if the person you’re talking to tries to turn it into flirting, shut that down fast. If they won’t let you shut it down, then you know they aren’t a respectful person and there’s no reason to keep talking to them at all.

And again, let me emphasize, we’re talking about dating sites here. Places… where people go… to meet potential dates. We’re not talking about hopping into the msg of a random stranger and stating your kink and sex needs.

Since this went on longer than I had planned, I’m going to wrap things up with the important takeaways here.

1. When looking at a potential date, please be open and honest with your needs and requirements as early as possible. No one wants to waste time with someone who isn’t compatible on a basic level.
2. There’s nothing wrong with being honest in your bio about who you are, no matter what anyone says.
3. Please stop assuming red flags based on how someone self-identifies. You might not appreciate having the information upfront, but many of us do.
4. How things are presented does matter. Be respectful when bringing up your needs. Present it as a discussion about compatibility and leave the flirting out of it.
5. And as always… be careful where you learn about BDSM/Kink/ D/s. Not all sources are reliable, and Facebook groups can be great for venting, but bear in mind that people are there for entertainment, not education.

Do you have a different perspective on this? I’d love to hear it because everyone I know who is lifestyle is shaking their heads over this one.